Court Sides with Haley in Anti-Union Case
The 4th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals sided with S.C. Gov. Nikki Haley on a lawsuit brought by International Association of Machinists and AFL-CIO over anti-union remarks
The U.S. 4th Circuit Court of Appeals on Thursday agreed with a lower court ruling, handing S.C. Gov. Nikki Haley and Catherine Templeton, then head of the state's labor department, a victory in a case brought by the International Association of Machinists and AFL-CIO over anti-union remarks they made.
The two labor groups brought suit against Haley and Templeton for numerous remarks critical of and hostile to unions, however the court found the rhetoric did not lead to any actions.
"The statements alleged by the unions contain nothing that we could plausibly interpret as indicating imminence," the judges wrote. "Most of the statements do not reference action at all. ... Even the statements that include an indication of action, however - for example, Haley's statement that Appellees are 'going to fight the unions' - are far too broad and nebulous to allow us to interpret them as intimating imminent action."
Haley spokesman Rob Godfrey released the following statement from the Governor about the case:
“The efforts of union bosses to silence our free speech and stop us from standing up for our workers and businesses have failed – and we’re going to continue to make it very clear: unions are not needed, not wanted and not welcome in South Carolina.”
Representatives for the AFL-CIO and the International Association of Machinists were not immediately available for comment.
Da Wilson
1:34 pm on Friday, May 4, 2012
Governor Haley's statement regarding unions is about as clear as it gets,proud of you Governor.
reg
1:51 am on Monday, May 7, 2012
Haley's statement regarding unions comes straight from Karl Marx's economic theory. All this garbage seeking to hurt unions only hurts your right to representation. And if your "proud" of her and that statement, then do Americans a favor and move - send us a postcard from China, which uses that anti-organized labor, anti-representation, Marxist economic theory.
stanley seigler
2:28 pm on Friday, May 4, 2012
Haley spokesman Rob Godfrey SAY: “The efforts of union bosses to silence our free speech and stop us from standing up for our workers and businesses have failed – and we’re going to continue to make it very clear: unions are not needed, not wanted and not welcome in South Carolina.”
the courts were probably right on this ruling...union shouldn't have files the suit...however;
SC's attitude expressed by godfrey's, red meat comment, creates an adversarial relationship which is counter productive to job creation...unions made the USA middle class.
caveat: not now and never a union member or employee.
Robert Kelly
5:13 pm on Friday, May 4, 2012
Of course they don't want or need unions; unions are for working people. So how does South Carolina stand with respect to worker income, especially compared to states with stronger unions? The demise of unions in this country parallels very nicely the increasing pay gap between upper management and working people.
stanley seigler
8:22 pm on Friday, May 4, 2012
@Robert Kelly: "The demise of unions in this country parallels very nicely the increasing pay gap between upper management and working people."
"it do"...ie, parallels nicely with the 1%:99% wealth gap.
http://www.americanprogressaction.org/issues/2011/09/madland_unions.html
[CLIPs]
"The states with the lowest percentage of workers in unions—North Carolina, Georgia, Arkansas, Louisiana, Mississippi, South Carolina, Tennessee, Virginia, Oklahoma, and Texas—all have relatively weak middle classes. In each of these states, the share of income going to the middle class (the middle 60 percent of the population by income) is below the national average, according to Census Bureau figures."
"To be sure, unions can sometimes act in an overly self-interested manner. But the core of what they do helps all workers and fuels a strong middle class. Unions make the middle class stronger by giving it a bigger say in our economy and our political system."
stanley seigler
8:46 pm on Friday, May 4, 2012
PS
interesting and maybe significant and relative to union/boeing issue:
avg wage (2009) in WA: $47,470...in SC: $36,759...this overall state avg...not a boeing comparison...but a comparison union v non union salaries...
Da Wilson
11:42 am on Saturday, May 5, 2012
You forgot to mention the lower taxes and overall cost of living in these states.
Nee43
12:04 pm on Saturday, May 5, 2012
Stanley, Your PS comment below does not tell the whole story. You cannot just compare average wages from one geographical area to another. You need to also include the Cost of Living differences. Unions like to compare wages; however, they don't compare the "quality of living". I'm very familiar with the Seattle, WA area -- home of Boeing. The average median sales price of a house in Seattle is $328,700 vs. $183,250 in Charleston, SC. Try buying a home in Seattle with a $47,470 income. Overall the Cost of Living in Seattle is 16% higher than Charleston. Now, let's compare an Airframe & Engine Mechanic median salaries between the 2 cities (benefits by Boeing are the same). Seattle is $52, 909. Charleston is $47, 285. However, when you take into consideration the difference in Cost of Living, the Charleston employee should be making 16% less or $44,443. Well, without the union in Charleston, the employee is actually making $2841 more on average. That affords the Charleston employee a better cost of living. So, the union is distorting the differences. But, I know, I'm preaching to a "brick wall". Let's hope this helps others to better understand!!!
stanley seigler
1:02 pm on Saturday, May 5, 2012
@Da Wilson: "You forgot to mention the lower taxes and overall cost of living in these states.
certainly a consideration in determining where one might want to live...not sure it relates to the effect of unions on the rise of the middle class...but;
FYI
of "these" states mentioned (North Carolina, Georgia, Arkansas, Louisiana, Mississippi, South Carolina, Tennessee, Virginia, Oklahoma, and Texas) only 3 have the cheapest of 10 cities in which to live...of 10 cheapest states only 5 outta 10 are ones mentioned...
SC did not have a city in the top 10 cheapest and was not in the top 10 cheapest states...
BTW i would rather live in CA or SC than TX...:)
stanley seigler
1:48 pm on Saturday, May 5, 2012
@Nee43: "...I'm preaching to a 'brick wall'..."
probably not nee43...but many resort to ad hominems when they lack sufficient facts...anyway;
re: 'they don't compare the "quality of living".'
agree, but difficult to compare the very subjective "quality of living"...it gets down to choice and what one can afford...as mentioned i would rather live in CA or SC than TX (choice)...and if an hourly worker (po folk) would rather be a union member...and a DEM.
re: The average median sales price of a house in Seattle is $328,700 vs. $183,250 in Charleston, SC. Try buying a home in Seattle with a $47,470 income.
not sure what averages mean...try buying a home on the isle of palms for $183,250...i worked in the Seattle/tacoma area and could have bought a nice home for $184,000...of course i could do the same in north charleston.
re: So, the union is distorting the differences
so do we all distort...and the old saw say, "there are lies, damn lies and stats...none of which contradicts (in the opine of a brick wall) the fact the unions were/are a major factor in a strong middle class which is the backbone of our democracy...
ps. for mo stats see comments above re cheapest cities and states.
stanley seigler
2:52 pm on Saturday, May 5, 2012
PS.
re: for mo stats see comments above re cheapest cities and states.
neither charleston (any SC city) nor any WA city is in the top ten cheapest...SC nor WA is in the top ten cheapest states...so...
seems the discussion of salaries/quality of life in SC v WA is apropos of nothing...ie;
does little to disprove original contention: unions were/are a major contributor to the rise of middle class...
Robert Kelly
8:40 pm on Saturday, May 5, 2012
Da Wilson, it is a myth that SC has low taxes. Having worked out of state for several years, I paid my taxes where I earned my income, and then had to pay SC. They credited me for taxes paid to another state, but there was always more tax to pay to SC because the SC rate is higher than many states. In my case I paid taxes to MD and to VA. SC was higher than both those states. County taxes (real estate taxes) are lower here, and you know how SC rates as far as education is concerned...funded by the county real estate taxes. The state charges a lot, and gives you no more than anywhere else. The county charges very little, and the school systems show it.
As a manager I worked with my union stewards and we had a good work environment. I believe unions are good for the country; and they are certainly good for the workers. I do not see how non-union, low wage workers are better off living in a state with low real estate taxes and poor schools for their kids. Higher wages would not raise tax rates, but it might get some workers out of those tornado-vulnerable mobile homes.
Gretchen
9:10 am on Sunday, May 6, 2012
OMG don't compare Texas to SC ..... Unions did a good job when they started, but now they are as useless as the horse and buggy
stanley seigler
11:58 am on Sunday, May 6, 2012
@Gretchen: "...useless as the horse and buggy"
my daddy would say "tits on a boar hog"...but in any case not true of unions ...the basis of union values is "justice for all"...they provide the middle class and po folks a voice in government...
they advocate for fair wages for all...including women, ie advocated for lilly letbetter act...and programs for the least...and FAPE (fair and appropiate public education)
in sum unions advocate for the general welfare (common good) of our country...the kochbro/etal advocate for the greedy bastards.
unions did lose their way (power corrupted)...but they are returning to their roots...eg, SEUI is fighting for fair wages and adequate training for the disabled's care providers.
if not for the unions the kochbro/etal would be the economic dictators of the working folks...beginining 1980, wages stagnated as the "trickle down" policies of the GOPs took effect and culminated (1%:99%) in 2000-08...as mentioned this parallels the decline of union membership...
BTW in germany there is a union member on corporation boards...
stanley seigler
12:59 pm on Monday, May 7, 2012
re: not sure what averages mean...try buying a home on the isle of palms for $183,250...
FYI stuff...avg home cost in similar areas...chas ares v seattle area:
Isle of Palms $564,900; Mount Pleasant $269,700 ; Sullivans Island $883,200
Awendaw $220,600; Charleston $185,100; Folly Beach $418,000
Seattle $349,200; Medina $1,160,800 ; Mercer Island $734,100; Clyde Hill $1,119,000; White Center $179,400 ; Yarrow Point $1,230,700
perhaps better comparisions are charleston SC v white center WA and medina WA v sullivans island SC.
to repeat: comparision of home values does nothing to contradict (in the opine of a brick wall) the fact unions were/are a major factor in a strong middle class which is the backbone of our democracy.
stanley seigler
2:02 pm on Monday, May 7, 2012
@nee43: "You cannot just compare average wages from one geographical area to another. You need to also include the Cost of Living differences"
thanks for encouraging me to take a closer look at effects of unions on the middle class...specifically union v non union state wage differential...
to beat a dead horse
based on comments here (PATCH) seems (to this brick wall) average wages are more indicative of effects of unions on middle class and po folks wages than area quality of life comparisons...ie; throwing the life styles of the 1% into the averages really distorts...
BTW: beer, wine, potatoes, steak, energy are cheaper (on the avg) in seattle than chas...:)
Mimi
2:21 am on Saturday, May 5, 2012
The attack by Nimrata or any of the Republicans are simply a diversion to allow the chamber of plutocrats to control elections without any interference from those Unions that were created for protection of the workers and their only mission is to insure a voice for the working class no matter who they support in a election. Not one word of the millions being spent by the Chamber to elect plutocrats that can be told when and what to do to support the exploitation of the middle class and the workers. It is incredible that anyone would be sacrificing their income and allowing the rich to further burden the middle class with more taxes that they benefit from. I think if everyone is smart and they are concerned about their own futures they should send every single Republican packing by whatever means possible. The plan is to create modernday slavery. Not one rich person got that way alone if not for the exploitation of the working class they wouldn't have a dime they just believe they are entitled to the profits created by everyone else.
stanley seigler
11:51 pm on Saturday, May 5, 2012
@Robert Kelly: " it is a myth that SC has low taxes..."
tho difficult to compare state tax rates believe the following tends to support the myth SC has some of the lowest rates:
"Seven states have only one income tax bracket, charging its residents one rate on all income, which is called a flat rate: Colorado (4.63%), Illinois (5.0%), Indiana (3.4%), Massachusetts (5.3%), Michigan (4.35%), Pennsylvania (3.07%) and Utah (5.0%)."
SC rate is 7% on income over $13000...not sure of rate in other income brackets...but it's obvious these 7 state have lower rates than SC and none are the states originally mentioned:
"The states with the lowest percentage of workers in unions—North Carolina, Georgia, Arkansas, Louisiana, Mississippi, South Carolina, Tennessee, Virginia, Oklahoma, and Texas—all have relatively weak middle classes. In each of these states, the share of income going to the middle class (the middle 60 percent of the population by income) is below the national average, according to Census Bureau figures."
to repeat the discussion re state salaries, quality of life, and tax rate does nothing to weaken the original contention: unions have been and are a major factor in the rise of the middle class and a major factor in its decline...ie, unions a major factor in rise/decline of the middle class...
stanley seigler
2:44 pm on Sunday, May 6, 2012
CORRECTION
"the following tends to support the myth SC has some of the lowest rates"
SHOULD READ
"the following tends to DISPELL the myth SC has some of the lowest rates"