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Two Online Petitions Seek S.C. Secession

White House forum draws attention from disappointed voters looking for a way out.

 

Considering Mitt Romney easily won South Carolina on Nov. 6, it's not surprising that there are some disappointed Republicans in the Palmetto State. But one woman is hoping S.C. is allowed to part ways with the U.S., and she's finding some support online.

One petition at the White House website's community forum requests that South Carolina be given the right to peacefully "withdraw from the United States of America and create its own new government." A similar petition is also seeking the right for S.C. to secede.

The website allows citizens to make a petition for a variety of issues, including recognizing sign language as a language or refusing foreign aid to Uganda.

Several petitions have been created since Friday, with individuals requesting that more than a dozen states be allowed to secede. The list includes Arizona, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Georgia (x2), Missouri, Tennessee, Colorado, New Jersey, Montana, Indiana, Mississippi, Florida, Kentucky, North Carolina, Alabama and Louisiana.

If the South Carolina secession petition reaches 25,000 signatures, the White House will provide an official response and link it to the petition and emailed to petition signers.

Texas reached the 25,000 mark on Monday.

Related Topics: Barack Obama, South Carolina Politics, White House, and secession

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Jonathan Allen

5:48 pm on Monday, November 12, 2012

The response to the petition, should it reach 25,000 signatures, should include a single line:

"No. See United States history circa 1861-64."

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Tom Utley

9:39 am on Tuesday, November 13, 2012

Yep, might makes right in today's world. That's alright though, we're going to have a natural secession before too long. The USA is going to go the way of the USSR.

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Paige

9:48 pm on Wednesday, November 14, 2012

I say we secede and & cross back over as illegals. Then we can hop on the government 'freebie' train AND receive amnesty.

Ken

6:11 pm on Monday, November 12, 2012

Let me guess, everyone signing that petition has a hooded white cloak in their closet and a kerosene soaked cross in their garage.

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Will

2:04 am on Tuesday, November 13, 2012

No. We've given those to people who hate. People who hold no moral fiber or understanding of the history of "gun clubs", state rights or the fact that the word "citizen" only became popular as the French Revolution gained support by American's like Thomas Jefferson who favored an Agrarian Republic. -David "Will" Williamson Smith, Jr.- South Carolina

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AD1 (AW) Dale L Rocque USN-Ret

7:36 am on Tuesday, November 13, 2012

No, but I do have a Navy uniform with 7 gold stripes on the left sleeve. I do believe in states rights. And I do hold people responsible for their actions. I believe the founding fathers had it right,but bleeding heart liberals want to changt that. This is not the U.S. of A. I grew up in and I want it back.

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Chris

10:09 am on Tuesday, November 13, 2012

Ken...your obvious hatred of anyone who disagrees with the atrocities being committed on us by o-b et. al makes you a dangerous person.

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JoSCh

10:36 am on Tuesday, November 13, 2012

Atrocity - An appalling or atrocious act, situation, or object, especially an act of unusual or illegal cruelty inflicted by an armed force on civilians or prisoners.

GOP hysterical hyperbole at its finest.

Samuel Thomas

6:54 pm on Monday, November 12, 2012

It seems to me that those who want sessions are the same people who can't face the fact that this country is changing and it's no longer in their favor. So this is their last chance to keep things the same because their terrified by what's to come

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Marcia Bragg-Bogan

8:01 pm on Monday, November 12, 2012

Samuel, are you not afraid of Communism? I have witnessed it's consequence and want no part of it. Read China's History and what happened after Mao took over then come back and let's hear what you have to say.

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reg

10:00 pm on Monday, November 12, 2012

*I* don't want communism, Marcia, and don't support it in other countries. That's why I never vote Republican. Look at what they've been trying to push for the last thirty years --- every economic proposal they make comes straight and direct from Karl Marx. Every proposal for free trade comes directly from Marxian Economics. The GOP is as commie as you can get, and that's why I'll never vote for one.

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Michelle

9:03 pm on Tuesday, November 13, 2012

You are correct to say that people are concerned about how this country is changing. Keep in mind, there are plenty of educated, and rational people who believe in the principles for which this country was based. Quite frankly, I am sick and tired of liberals painting conservatives as racist idiots. It is small minded and lacking in truth. If you want socialized programs, there are many countries that have engaged those failed policies while they go bankrupt. If that is what you want, relocate. The bottom line is that we are leaving our next generation with more fiscal destruction that will bring this country to it's knees. It is so sad that we have come to this point in our country. America is a great country but in order to maintain the dreams, hope for the future we must behave in a fiscally responsible manner.

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Will

9:03 pm on Tuesday, November 13, 2012

I'm not terrified by what's to come. I do feel bad for the folks who are leaning to the left, away from their families and moral values and the Bible's timeless efficacy...away from their rifles! Our beautiful South has been all but walked on before so beat your drum Sam Tom!

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JoSCh

9:56 am on Wednesday, November 14, 2012

@Michelle, many of your contemporaries often ARE racist idiots, and people stating as such isn't painting Republicans poorly; they are representing you poorly. They're the problem. Deal with them.

And you implying that the people who aren't Republicans don't believe in this country is as disingenuous as people who imply all Republicans are racist.

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Robert Thompson

8:02 pm on Wednesday, November 14, 2012

The people that voted for Obama hold there hands out expecting something for nothing, they do not see the edge of the cliff that everyone is standing on and soon to drop off of because of your fearless leader, not mine!

redvelvet42

6:54 pm on Monday, November 12, 2012

what?! i thought the "angry white man" mentality had been silenced when they were defeated at the polls. so what is each state seeking nationhood or forming one unified nation with gov/bishop romney as their leader? this is just crazy! rather than change and grow they want to relive the past. shameful!

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jack kerry

8:01 pm on Monday, November 12, 2012

Let those states go...more food stamps for the rest of us

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Michelle

8:07 am on Wednesday, November 14, 2012

Don't you need the hard working American's to support food stamps??? These programs are necessary for the sick and disabled Americans. It has become a lifestyle of mediocracy instead of an aid. This is one of the most unfortunate things in my opinion. By the way, this conservative works with the disabled children that our public schools throw to the side of the road. Our schools are an awesome example of failure to serve the people. Don't get me wrong, some do but far too many fail for children in the name of funding. Education should serve as possible model of what we have to look forward to when it comes to Obamacare. Our prisons are filled with people who have been failed by family and the education system. I see it everyday.

R

8:01 pm on Monday, November 12, 2012

Nothing is going to change no matter who the prrsident is because congress doesnt want change

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vinlyn

8:54 pm on Monday, November 12, 2012

I have to agree fully congress has all the control.

Michael

8:02 pm on Monday, November 12, 2012

I cant believe the stupidity of people in SC. Though I was against Obama, I voted for Gary Johnson instead of the stale repub nominee. The GOP needs to get in step with the 21st century

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Deborah Bagley

11:00 pm on Tuesday, November 13, 2012

Really? It's not just SC. Look at national news and you'll see 23 other states also asking to seceed from the US. I also believe you're correct about the GOP. They do need to step into the 21st century. Not all of us here in SC are Republican. It just appears to look that way on their maps.

Below is why secession will not happen. We will face a civil war instead. If you don't like this country, then leave. Otherwise, let's work together to fix the issues. Don't like the government? Make good strong points instead of stupid remarks to get your candidate voted in. Still don't like it? There are other ways of changing the government. There are options. Secession is not one of them and is not wise in the least.

Texas Annexation Questions and Answers - Texas State Library and Archives Commission

www.tsl.state.tx.us
Interesting reading.

lovely

8:02 pm on Monday, November 12, 2012

This is so ridiculous! What a waste of energy. Psssst... take all ur hatred and energy and work on y'all Republican campaign & candidate. U got 4 yrs to do it :-*

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Guppy Girl 57

8:03 pm on Monday, November 12, 2012

I am so sick and tired of the whining and complaining of the people in our country. States want to secede to form a new country --- because that worked out so well the last time the states attempted to secede from the U.S. What all 50 states need to do is figure out how we can pull our country together -- that means getting rid of every politician in Washington, D.C. and starting over fresh -- ALL OF THEM. It's amazing how the problems of our country have yet to affect them. I'm retired after 30 years of service to the citizens of our state and community -- each month I have to decide what are more important, groceries or prescription medications. Past President's, Senator's and Representative's can retire after 8 years with greater benefits than I receive; and they don't have to worry about whether or not there is Social Security and Medicaid when they hit their 60's, because they voted themselves a much better package for their financial and health situation in their golden years. Let's face it, our leaders SUCK in this country -- Republicans and Democrats.

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maizenbluedoc

5:57 am on Tuesday, November 13, 2012

Guess what? Voters continue to reelect the same corrupt so-called leaders. It would appear that the majority want leaders who "suck".

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JoSCh

9:39 am on Tuesday, November 13, 2012

@maizenbludoc, voters aren't given many choices outside of the two major parties, and they almost to a man present candidates that suck. And they put policy in place to keep it that way.

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Brooks Allison

9:28 pm on Wednesday, November 21, 2012

Guess What, @Maizenbluedoc, now that we are in the computer age we should go to the popular voting system, you would see seats change. I have been tired of the electoral system for a while. We could vote from home the data bank could track every vote.

Guppy Girl 57

8:04 pm on Monday, November 12, 2012

(Comment continued):
My family fought against the British in the Revolutionary War, they fought on both sides of the Civil War, and they have fought in WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, and both wars in the Middle East / Gulf. I'm proud of all of my family members who have served in the U. S. Military and given me the freedom to live in the best country on this planet.
My family fought hard for this country, so everyone needs to come together. So for the rest of you -- everyone needs to grow up, put on their big girl panties, and get to work making our country work together for a better and stronger America for all of us. If you hate this country so much, then move to Canada, Mexico, China or Japan -- the rest of us will stay here and rebuild without you.

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cody spence

8:27 pm on Monday, November 12, 2012

You people are seriously blaming this on racism? We've delt with obama for 4 years and all he's done is break promises and live the high life. I don't mind what color you are. Just care about our country if you're going to lead it.

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vinlyn

8:56 pm on Monday, November 12, 2012

Cody, what do you call it then? The day after President Obama won I walked in the restroom at work and heard one of my co-workers that I thought was the coolest say that he hopes that they kill him now if that’s not hate then what is it. Four years ago my daughter came home from high school in tears because students that she had been attending school with for over 10 were saying things like I can’t believe we have Nword for a president and she had never experienced racism before she was raised to treat everyone as they treat you. When she heard people that she thought cared for her say these hurtful words, me and my wife had to really tell her how the south works and how some people raise their children to see different because the color of someone’s skin.

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Tom Utley

9:41 am on Tuesday, November 13, 2012

African Americans would actually have better representation in an independent South Carolina than they do at the federal level, simply by the numbers. Black folks make up 10-15% of the population nationally, and about 1/3rd of the population of this state. So if they really wanted to make a difference in many of the issues that are hurting their people, such as the drug war (which is racist beyond belief) and the high unemployment rate for blacks, they would have a better chance if South Carolina was independent of the feds.

Not that the government of South Carolina is so great at this point - it clearly is not, but I fail to see how racism would drive people to want to increase minority representation by 200-300%.

Brian Bottoms

8:54 pm on Monday, November 12, 2012

As a proud Southerner, who is a white male that voted for Obama. The stupidity of my fellow Southerners saddens me. I guess I am a minority, white, male, and intelligent.

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Margaret Malaspina

9:34 pm on Monday, November 12, 2012

Brian, you are a minority. And I am proud of you!

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Guppy Girl 57

10:15 pm on Monday, November 12, 2012

As a proud Southerner, who is a white female that voted for Obama. I agree with you, Brian -- the stupidity of our fellow Southerners also saddens me. I am in the minority with you -- white, female, and intelligent.

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Jerry Calvert

1:43 am on Tuesday, November 13, 2012

I don't think so on the intelligent part.

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Glad_i_got_out

7:50 am on Tuesday, November 13, 2012

As a proud Northerner now living in the South who also voted for President Obama this also saddens me.

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Tom Utley

9:42 am on Tuesday, November 13, 2012

"Glad I got out"

This is funny. You are glad you got out of the North, where the policies of Democrats have ruined the economy and people with the means are leaving in droves like rats from a sinking ship, and now you are criticizing South Carolinians who want to opt-out, just like you did. That's funny.

Deloris Johnson

8:54 pm on Monday, November 12, 2012

YEA FOR YOU, MY FAMILY DID THE SAME, YOU'RE RIGHT. CLEAN OUT ALL OFFICIAL'S AND REDO ALL THEIR RETIREMENT, EVERYONE PULL TOGETHER AND BRING GOD BACK TO OUR COUNTRY.

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ray callahan

8:55 pm on Monday, November 12, 2012

What we all need to unserstand is that we are a county of many diffirent social, economic, political and religious beliefs. You really have to be arrogant to believe that your particular beliefs are right. If you want things to change for the better stop imposing your views on others. Embrace the different views and you will find greater strength and commanality than in narrow and myopic views. You build from the ground up and not from the top down. You want things to improve than educate yourself beyond sound bites and put your represenatives on notice that if they cast one vote for corporate or political greed you will vote them out of office.

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Tg

8:55 pm on Monday, November 12, 2012

Cody - please go google - Obama accomplishments... Then you can turn Fox back on

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Steffie Godbolt

8:56 pm on Monday, November 12, 2012

I am an African American women born and raised in SC. I and millions of others in SC are always being embarrassed by this type of foolishness. We still have all white schools, all white subdivisions, all white workplaces and a whole lot of racism. Do they want to secede or move to a very all white area and secede. When Bush won, we (ie Voters for Gore) accepted and did not further disgrace our state with foolishness. So sit down and become active in voter registration and get your candidates elected. SC is better than this silly petition.

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sandpiper0

3:44 pm on Tuesday, November 13, 2012

I'm just a plain old American. Not Irish-American, although that is where my ancestors immigrated from. And I guess I'm really dumb, too. I did not know we have all white school, subdivisions, workplaces, etc.. And for the racism part, my neighborhood is now about half white and half black, and we all get along just fine. Some of my good friends are black, and I truly never thought about the color of their skin, until someone makes an issue of it. I have never head any of them refer to themselves as African American just as I don't call myself Irish American. Can't we just be Americans regardless of skin color? After all we were born in America. And I am proud of it.

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maizenbluedoc

4:18 pm on Tuesday, November 13, 2012

How can you be an African-American when you were born in South Carolina? My ancestors are from Germany, yet I don't all myself a German-American. Until Americans drop the name hyphenation, people will never be real A M E R I C A N. I spent 20 years in the military, including a tour in Viet Nam, and never did I believe I did it for a particular group of people, I did it for Americans living in America. Every time I hear or see the term African-American, it tells me you are African first, and American second. Anyone born here or is a legal, naturalized citizen is an American. Name hyphenation only further polarizes the American people. People who are born in Africa may be African-Americans, but not those born here.

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JoSCh

5:36 pm on Tuesday, November 13, 2012

Sandpiper and maizen, were either of your ancestors brought against their will in chains? I agree that the hyphenation issue is divisive, but anybody that doesn't understand why a culture that was brought here against their will would be a little pissed about it is being willfully ignorant and insensitive.

That said, IF I were an American of African descent, I'd drop African-American and I'd work to get it out of my culture. As far as I can tell doesn't do you or anybody any favors.

peopleforfreedom

8:56 pm on Monday, November 12, 2012

It's not a black r white thing you ignorant people!! It's about what this country was found for. FREEDOM!!!!! dems & lebs r the ones that always want to through the race card. If we r aloud to succeed,u people well see we aren't the racist people,that we're made out to be.

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edward

8:57 pm on Monday, November 12, 2012

Look what happened last time states secceded.the civil war happened.wiped out 2% of the American population.a house divided cannot stand.all those for secession should be up for treason.

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Logan Smith

9:34 pm on Monday, November 12, 2012

The South peacefully seceded, we declared independence from what we saw as a Tyrannical government. This was not against the constitution, in fact, many of our founding fathers encouraged people to stand up against the government when they saw something that was against the constitution. There was a whole year after S.C. secession before the war started. Do you know why the war started? It was because the U.S. blockaded our ports, and occupied a fort with guns pointed toward our beloved state. A blockade is an act of WAR; the North could have negotiated peaceful terms, and we would have kept trade, the Confederacy even moved her capitol from Alabama to Virginia just so it would be easier to send dignitaries. Instead, they marched their troops into our allies land, Virginia, and we sent troops to aid their fight. They marched their mercenary armies across our land, burning and pillaging cities. Our economy was devastated, in a way we have barely recovered from. For what you may ask? For our tax dollars, our wealth, our obedience to a corrupt government; how is that justified?

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stanley seigler

10:28 pm on Monday, November 12, 2012

@Logan Smith
re: The South peacefully seceded...
sounds like you had the same hi-school history teacher, i had...

surely you don't believe this crap now...

martha young

8:57 pm on Monday, November 12, 2012

Let all who voted this person in enjoy all he brings to the table because I got a deep feeling they don't have to worry bout jobs or money they must live off of their parents. Don't blame the ones who has to make a living for their families we have rights too

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minuteman69

8:57 pm on Monday, November 12, 2012

It doesn't matter anymore. The gears are in motion and cannot be stopped now. It is going to be a bigger fall than in 29. Hard times are a coming. Then we will see who the real americans are and who the freeloaders are.

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ray callahan

9:53 pm on Monday, November 12, 2012

Exactly what freedoms are you being denied? This is about common sense. Goverment is for the benefit of all people. We have the single most concentration of wealth in history. We manafacutre and produce next to nothing in this country because we value money over substance and doing what is right. We the people has been forgotten and replaced with I want and at anyone elses expense.

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Guppy Girl 57

10:28 pm on Monday, November 12, 2012

So who are all of these freeloaders -- the millions of people who go out everyday looking for a job that isn't out there? I recently lost my job, and I'm not eligible for UI -- I'm up and out everyday looking for work, putting in applications, making a true effort to find work -- so far not so good. How about the millions of people who are on Food Stamps because they are under employed, because no one wants to pay more than minimum wage and give you less that 30 hours per work so they don't have to offer benefits. The millions of people -- children -- without health insurance -- people who can't get insurance because of pre-existing conditions, such as childhood cancer survivors -- the best they can get in SC cost $250 per month -- when you you live on minimum wage, less than 30 hours per week -- pay rent, car gas, auto insurance on a car that is so old that it barely runs, SCE&G utilities, Charleston Water, groceries -- the basics -- guess what -- there isn't and extra $250 per month for that insurance. Grow up minuteman69 and enter the real world.

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Guppy Girl 57

10:47 pm on Monday, November 12, 2012

And did I forget to mention the reason there are no decent jobs out there -- they are all in Mexico, China, and Japan -- why -- because they have cheap labor and the big ass businesses in the US need more money.

IN SC

9:22 pm on Monday, November 12, 2012

Sounds like "I'm gonna take my ball and go home!!"

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John, American Born

9:34 pm on Monday, November 12, 2012

If Romney had won, would these same folks understand if Obama supporters in SC wanted the state to secede? I don't think so. I live in SC, love it here. I love America too. Don't try and turn my home into somthing to fit your selfish needs. If you dont appreaciate this country, take your hateful and selfish behind to some other country..find an uncharted island and start ur own government. Thats what you would say had Romney won and I wanted to secede SC. What you do if SC secede..form a goverment that shuts down every one not in agreement with your ideas, make current SC citizens leave there homes so the likes of you get your way? You big USA hateing babies, America voted..Obama won.

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Margaret Malaspina

9:34 pm on Monday, November 12, 2012

I think this is a great idea! Loser states like SC, with subpar economies, low education achievement and limited prospects are a drain on the U.S. economy. I say, let them go. I love you SC, but I think I can still collect my SS and medicare from the U.S. if you go out on your own. Best of luck to you. You can't make it as a state, so why not try it on your own?

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Guppy Girl 57

10:29 pm on Monday, November 12, 2012

And you left out -- with the great governor that we have -- Nikki Haley. The only reason I would like to have seen Romney elected is that he may have tapped Nikki Haley for a job in his administration, getting her out of our state.

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Tom Utley

9:39 am on Tuesday, November 13, 2012

That's a great point. Now would be the absolute worse time possible for our state to secede. Thanks in part to our faulty SC constitution, imposed on us by the federal government, we have a very bad government, and our elected officials are less than competent.

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reg

9:05 pm on Wednesday, November 14, 2012

um, Tom? Our state constitution was *not* imposed by the federal government. In fact, it was rewritten *twice* after the Civil War, and the last version specifically to limit fed gov reach here.

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Tom Utley

11:35 am on Thursday, November 15, 2012

The 1868 constitution was forced upon us by the feds during reconstruction. The 1898 (and current) version was a modified version of the 1868 constitution, within the constraints allowed at the time, that was wrongheaded and created an even worse situation.

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reg

4:18 pm on Thursday, November 15, 2012

um, no - that was the constitution of 1865 that was forced upon the state by the fed gov. The one in 1868 was the first to seek reinstatement of state superiority, and actually created the three branches here in SC for the first time --- and it was created by the legislature and *voted on by the people.* The next and last one from 1895, when political organization from property owners was stronger, made the governor's office weaker than the legislature, restricted voter rights ... Today's history lesson is brought to you by the letters r, e and g.

Steve Garing

10:28 pm on Monday, November 12, 2012

I would be happy if all the red states seceded and formed our own conservative government. Hard work would once again be a virtue, and we could be free from this encroaching socialism / welfare state we have now. No more stupid 'Obama phones' for lazy losers bought by my sweat!

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JoSCh

10:09 am on Tuesday, November 13, 2012

The "Obama phone" is really a "Reagan phone" but hey, what good are facts amirite?

A country ran with current red state rhetoric defining policy would be a third world religious plutocracy.

lee tomas

10:47 pm on Monday, November 12, 2012

First of all you can't fix stupid. Democratic libs are the prime example of stupid. These free loading libs are trading their freedoms for broken promises and don't forget the free obama phones. Obama will turn this country over to the united nations. This obama care is not free. It will be very expensive with little choice of health care with long lines. Example ( dmv..irs office..ect.) And it will require you to take the computer chip. Www. Id chip. Com.. The goverment plans to require everyone to take this chip. You will be tracked by gps, your finances will be put on this chip ( it will take the place of money) total control. Is this want you really want America. If it is move ur butts up north and I and all the other freedom loving Americans will stay in the south. And lastly, it is a crying shame after over 140 years and still we play the race card. The Republicans set the slaves free (Abraham Lincoln) It was the Democratic party wanted to keep slaves. And still the blacks still vote Democratic because they promise free stuff. Unbelievable stupidity

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johnny rebel

10:47 pm on Monday, November 12, 2012

House divided cannot stand. So let it be known i say glorious times ahead let the south rise again. " civil war" needs to happen n would fight for my country if i was call on to do i pledge aligents to the south.

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lee tomas

11:22 pm on Monday, November 12, 2012

Everyone spread the word on this petition and lets get the signatures we need. This is our country, the true Americans. You liberal, socialist get out. China and Russia will be glad to take control of you. Take your free loading butts out of my America. True Americans work hard and have pride. I'm sick off paying for your food stamps,free health care and welfare. Work or get out. Freedom is not free. From fighting for it or working for it. Do your part.

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stanley seigler

1:41 am on Tuesday, November 13, 2012

re: 'i'm sick off paying for your food stamps,free health care and welfare. Work or get out. Freedom is not free. From fighting for it or working for it. Do your part.

specifically who are you talking to...who are the 'your' in 'paying for 'your' food stamps'...

are you talking to me...bet i have paid more in taxes in one (well maybe two) yr than you have paid in yo life time (unless yo are a 1%-er)...probably %-wise more than MITTens...

Crazy Mother Runner

1:41 am on Tuesday, November 13, 2012

I'm not saying any of you are right or wrong, but calling names and being judgmental because someone may have different views than you seems quite immature. Our nation seems to be going down the toilet because of attitudes like this. Tearing each other down seems to be tearing our country apart. And, just so you know, intelligence does not equal common sense and has no bearing on who you vote for. It is all about personal beliefs and priorities. There are raging nut balls on both sides, but I hope, and have to believe, that there are a lot of people in the middle who really want this country to remain great. To do that, we have to stop hemorrhaging money and get our economy strong. I would say that the problem is with politicians who are more concerned with pleasing all kinds of special interest groups so they can get re-elected (keep their jobs). This means our government is spending too much time protecting the rights and livelihood of the few and ignoring the best interests of the whole.

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Larry Elliott

1:41 am on Tuesday, November 13, 2012

I'm hoping the country will implode under Obamanism and the Glorious South will rise from the ashes to realize the dreams of our forefathers.

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Larry Elliott

8:26 am on Thursday, November 22, 2012

I live and work in Washington DC. I am a Gay Tea Party Republican and Southerner. I fell like a Jew would fell like in Berlin under NAZI rule. These Obama savages absolutely disgust me. They are like little NAZIs going around trying to find ways to expand government and restrict freedom. Sometimes I fell like I need to see a psychologist just to cope until retirement. The only respite I get is when I go to Charleston ,SC to see my parents to be among normal freedom loving Americans. You must understand these people are not like South Carolina democrats who actually seem normal and reasonable to me. This is your hard socialist left and they are scary, I live among them and see it every day. Thank God we have the house.

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Fisher

1:41 am on Tuesday, November 13, 2012

The hilarity of this secession argument is that South Carolina couldn't survive without the federal government. For every dollar South Carolina residents pay in federal taxes, they TAKE $1.92 in federal benefits. So, as it turns out, South Carolina is a taker NOT a maker, as Paul Ryan would put it.

So, if the ole Palmetto State wants to secede, that's fine. No military bases, no federal funds for the port, no student loans or grants to support colleges, no funds for federal highway upkeep. Local hospitals would close without Medicare or Medicaid and all those retirees in Summerville would pack up without their free healthcare and Social Security benefits.

Wouldn't it be hilarious for South Carolina to go just one month without the big, bad federal government helping? The state would cease to exist. South Carolina is nothing without the federal government.

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Tom Utley

9:39 am on Tuesday, November 13, 2012

This is actually not a valid argument. The reason SC takes so much federal money is because of the way the federal government funds its mandated entitlement programs. WIthout those mandates, SC would have a balanced budget.

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JoSCh

10:36 am on Tuesday, November 13, 2012

If SC didn't take money from the Federal gov't they'd have a balanced budget? How? The math seems exactly the opposite of what it should be. And if they accept mandated money and allocate the money as mandated, how would it affect the budget?

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Tom Utley

11:38 am on Tuesday, November 13, 2012

I haven't looked it up in about 9 months, but if you look at the treasurer's report it shows clear as day the exact amounts of money that are received and spent by the state, and for what purpose.

I agree with Fisher, SC takes WAY too much money from the feds. If it was up to me, SC would take 0 money from the feds. Of course, the people of SC would pay 0 in federal taxes as well.

Fisher's argument is invalid and ridiculous though, because of the federal mandated spending. Things like the port expansion are miniscule by comparison, and would easily be handled by the state or private investors if our citizens didn't have the federal tax burden.

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JoSCh

12:54 pm on Tuesday, November 13, 2012

Your proof that SC would have a balanced budget if they didn't allocate federal funds is a "report that shows clear as day the exact amounts of money that are received and spent by the state, and for what purpose."

Advocating for tribal anarchy is certainly your prerogative, but you can't be taken seriously.

And personally I trust "private investors" less than I trust elected officials. Elected officials on some level can be held accountable, private investors aren't except to themselves.

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Tom Utley

3:43 pm on Tuesday, November 13, 2012

In a free country, investors are held accountable by the voluntary interactions they receive with other individuals. If they do something wrong, people stop doing business with them.

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JoSCh

5:36 pm on Tuesday, November 13, 2012

In your free country there are no other choices to purchase solutions from, not for long anyway. Why would a stronger business allow a competitor to survive? Hell, they don't now and they are regulated.

Robert Kelly

7:21 am on Tuesday, November 13, 2012

Maybe the real problem for the discontent behind this petition is not the federal government. As Fisher pointed out, SC citizens are not supporting the federal government; the federal government is supporting the SC citizens. Is the federal government the reason for SC's low standing in education and health? Is the federal government the reason for the low wages? If the Dems were to blame, these problems would be universal across the country, but SC is way below the national average. The state is run by the Republican party at all levels, so you can't even blame the Dems for the local conditions. Maybe the problem is actually the voters of this state and who they have chosen to run the state. Without the support of the rest of the nation there would be a lot less money coming into the state, and the incompetence of the locally elected officials would REALLY kick in.

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Patrick_E

7:56 am on Tuesday, November 13, 2012

A couple thoughts. You're bashing SC for what, 10K people signing a stupid petition? Yet if the other side says all dems are on welfare, they are making generalizations. 10K is really not tht many people in the grand scheme of things. You can get that many people to a Justin Bieber concert (also ridiculous).

People are mad, let them be mad. It will settle down. The people that said dems didn't freak out at Bushs win over Gore have short memories. Although I admit, I don't think there was secession talk, they were yelling about prosecutting the FL Attorney General on up to George Bush.

I do understand the reasoning behind the South's dislike of democrates. They want to be left alone and alot of people see dems as wanting to inject themselves into all facets of there lives. Democrates are seen as liberals who are seen as gun hating atheiests who is against their chosen way of life. I'm talking perceptions so don't get into an argument over that statement.

And as far as racism goes, yes it is alive and well in the country. And always will be. On both sides. For every white racist their is a black one. It's the way it is. You can educate until you are blue in the face, it's always gonna be there. Just like you can have as many wars on poverty as you want, there will always be poor. We have poured billions into that one and the poverty rate stays about the same. I'm sure its helping people, but it's not going to end poverty.

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Cold War Vet

8:14 am on Tuesday, November 13, 2012

A lesson In Irony: The Food Stamp Program, administered by the U.S. Department of Agriculture, is proud to be distributing the greatest number of free meals and food stamps ever. Meanwhile, the National Park Service, administered by the U.S. Department of the Interior, asks us to "Please Do Not Feed the Animals." Their stated reason for the policy is because the animals will grow dependent on handouts and will not learn to take care of themselves. Thus ends today's lesson.

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brian crenshaw

8:14 am on Tuesday, November 13, 2012

The U S is an empire at decline it will fall as Rome did. We can not support the U N and all the social programs that we have taken on. The problem i see is no one wants to be responisible for thier on future good or bad just let big brother take care of me. Look at Katrina I have a cajun friend put it best, We never made the news because we took care of ourselves and didnt wait for someone to do it for us, but 80 miles down the road it was a war zone because people were to lazy to clean up. Sad truth. God save the south

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Mike Moore

9:40 am on Tuesday, November 13, 2012

Actually, the dec. of Independence gives us the right to form a new government if we feel tyrrany has taken over the existing one. However, we have the Constitution which protects our rights as a free Republic. The problem we face presently is that when the founding fathers wrote the Constitution, they assumed that the people would always elect government officials from the president down who were men of integrity and governed by Biblical moral and political principles. Unfortunately,this is no longer the case, AND we now , because God has been removed from the public arena and government, have a society which, for the most part, is ungodly and actually hates God and all that is right if it conflicts with their agenda of sin. Secession is not the answer. That would actually please the present president and further his anti American agenda, because he could then declare martial law and easily establish a dictatorship governed by a police state much like Hitler's Germany. Yes, ultimately it fell, but what misery and mourning occurred in the process. We have to get back to God, and elect people of integrity and who fear Gid once again. There are enough Christians in this nation, if THEY will unify, to turn everything around in the right direction, using the political process we already have in place. No need to re invent the wheel!!

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sandpiper0

9:06 pm on Tuesday, November 13, 2012

I totally agree. We all need to get back to God. It is amazing to me to see people who idolize Hollywood and celebrities, and don't give a thought to God. I saw several celebrities at a televised Obama rally (right before I changed the channel) that laughed at the Christians.in America. I wonder how long God is going to put up with this nonsense.

Sue

9:41 am on Tuesday, November 13, 2012

This is what is needed to wake up Washington, there is such a thing as state rights and Washington has trampled upon them. There are 20 states right now with petitions, Wake up Washington before you put this naion in a crisis. Look at Boeing down in Charleston, who gave Washington the right to say how a business runs, whether it is union or not. I'd sign the petition just to wake everyone up

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JoSCh

10:36 am on Tuesday, November 13, 2012

Article I, Section 8, Clause 3 of the US Constitution. Because left unchecked by regulation some businesses will literally do anything to increase their profit margin. See: Child labor, monopolies, market failures, hostile takeover of the US election process, etc, etc.

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Tom Utley

3:44 pm on Tuesday, November 13, 2012

Child Labor is better than Child Starvation. The relatively free society enjoyed in the late 1800's is what did away with Child Labor, as each family began to have enough capital to pay for their own children to go to school. Child Labor laws protect no-one and are ridiculous.

The government is the biggest monopoly, but that never seems to come up when people such as yourself are begging for more government control. No natural monopoly is possible, and every monopoly in history attained that state through government privilege.

Market failures are an essential aspect of human progress and prosperity. Without failure, there is no indication as to what is best for people and what isn't.

Elections aren't the solution to anything. "Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner."

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Jonathan Allen

2:51 pm on Tuesday, November 13, 2012

Sue,
Actually there is no such thing as "states' rights." The Constitution grants rights to people (and the Supreme Court decided somewhere along the way to grant them to corporations as well - but that's a separate issue), and reserves powers for the federal government and the states. The 10th Amendment to the Constitution reads: "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."
I know we've used the term "states' rights" colloquially for generations now, but misuse of a term does not make it a valid concept. If you want to talk about the powers of the various states to set their own regulatory framework for whatever issue that doesn't fall under the purview of the federal government, fine have at it. If you even want to debate what powers should and should not rest with state legislatures vs. the U.S. Congress, that's fine too. However I really wish people would stop using the term "states' rights" as a catch-all for whatever pet issue they have with federalism.

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JoSCh

4:28 pm on Tuesday, November 13, 2012

Cynicism noted Mr Utley. I don't see much point in continuing this debate as your apparent goal is for society to regress to pre-tribal anarchy with partnerships to drive commerce. Good luck.

Tom Utley

9:39 am on Tuesday, November 13, 2012

This is silly and will amount to nothing, but I do support the principle of secession and I wish all of the 50 states would secede. I think we'd all be much better off. I support decentralization of power wherever possible.

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reg

9:08 pm on Wednesday, November 14, 2012

Let's hear it for King Tom of Utleyvania! Yippie! Hooray!!!

stanley seigler

9:41 am on Tuesday, November 13, 2012

@Jonathan Allen re: "No. See United States history circa 1861-64."

There are those who seem to believe we'd be better off if that war went differently.

We then wouldn't need illegals to pick the crops...women would be pregnant, barefoot and in the kitchen.

they believe we don’t need BO-care (affordable health care) just...get sick and die.

and that strom thurmond should have been president.

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Jacqueline kimbrough

1:54 pm on Tuesday, November 13, 2012

Good luck and have a happy life as you depart.

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Jonathan Allen

2:54 pm on Tuesday, November 13, 2012

Just thought everyone should know (and hopefully get a kick out of it), in addition to the secession petitions now begun in approximately 30 states, someone has set up a petition to deport all those who sign a petition for their state to secede, and more than 4,500 people have already signed it. https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/deport-everyone-signed-petition-withdraw-their-state-united-states-america/dmQl1bXL

/we now return you to your regularly scheduled internet flame war

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Sam White

5:36 pm on Tuesday, November 13, 2012

State rights have never been better. I mean, just look, in the last few days what has happened in Colorado, Maryland, Washington and Minnesota. Many Americans are becoming more free right before our eyes.

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JoSCh

9:03 pm on Tuesday, November 13, 2012

lol, yeah... but Jesus and uh... uhh... that's different! Any civil rights added after 1776 are unconstitutional! Thomas Jefferson didn't smoke pot or have out of wedlock sex with black girls!

mary shelly

6:17 pm on Tuesday, November 13, 2012

its amazing just how stupid some people are???????? to put your name on a list that could be used as a enemies of the state blacklist , especially on the gov. website,whats next marshall law

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JoSCh

9:03 pm on Tuesday, November 13, 2012

Martial law, person who is accusing other people of being stupid and then adding a bunch of question marks to their end of their statement as if it was interrogative.

Still, your point stands, these people are also morons. I don't think they'll automatically end up on a "blacklist" but IF they do become insurgents or terrorists I'm sure this documented first step will be held against them.

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sandy lewis

9:06 pm on Tuesday, November 13, 2012

We've been under martial just not enacted yet. Masked under the name Agenda 21. Look it up on you tube. O passed his own laws taking total control of all food, water everything. Oct 26th, another law connecting all forms of gov w/washington. Look up on you tube "jesse ventura fema camps" up, running people working in the offices. Another state just built a huge one. Warning, this will make you lose sleep. Just remember, God is in charge. Everything thats going on is following the end times of the Bible to a T. No state, regardless if they break away, will be left uneffected by this new world order.

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JoSCh

8:07 am on Wednesday, November 14, 2012

lol, I don't know that watching that tripe will cause you to lose sleep. Touch with reality, sure.

john ford

6:16 pm on Tuesday, November 13, 2012

Put your money on the wrong horse again and lost. Now you want to leave the the union (AGAIN). Doesn't matter because SC will soon join the ranks of the living and become a quote BLUE STATE.

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Bye Obama

9:06 pm on Tuesday, November 13, 2012

Obama threw away 17 trillion dollars, if someone got 1000 dollars everyday since the birth of Jesus they wouldn't be near that amount, if he was actually smart "unlike all black peopl" he would could have given it to each family owning their own home and the amount recieved would be somewhere near 115,000 a family that would have atleast given them a chance to pay off mortgage and save the housing market! But no I wonder what happened to that 17 trillion, bc as far as now the U.S. economy is at its lowest since the depression, something wrong there? Ohio wa the most important state during the election being split 50/50 republican/democratic, and yet Obama recieved 100% percent votes from Ohio, and some states even gave 109% meaning some people either voted twice or the senate and government is doing something, but yet all you people who think we're racist just bc we want our country to be worth a damn. Watch news more and keep up with politics before you put in your 2 cent. So you know it's ba when over half the country 34 states want to secede!! #GoodByeObama

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reg

9:48 pm on Wednesday, November 14, 2012

oh, so many foolish sheep fall for that "national debt is completely obama's fault" line -- where were these people before January 2009? 80% of all national debt came from Republican presidencies. Now, folks don't understand that a quarter of that debt (or thereabouts) isn't government debt, but our OWN debt: credit cards, mortgages, school loans. another quarter isn't debt, but money/capital/liquid we actually have on hand: Social Security trust; it'll be paid out someday, so GOP wants folks to believe its "debt". The trade deficit? Debt to foreign countries? That came from Reagan, Bush and Bush. Obama holds the record for lowest increase in fed gov spending since Eisenhower, for pete's sake --- but the GOsheeP just want to believe what Rush Limp-baugh tells them ....

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stanley seigler

10:54 pm on Wednesday, November 14, 2012

@Bye Obama

re: Obama threw away 17 trillion dollars

google for facts...$17T is total debt for all presidents to date [as reg say].

FYI debt increase % (posted several times on PATCH):

RR 82-85; 8.7% MW
RR 86-89; 4.9% MW
B1 90-93; 5.4% MW
BC 94-97; 3.2% MW
BC 98-01; 3.9% MW
B2 02-05; 7.3% MW
B2 06-09; 8.1% MW
BO 10-13; 5.2% FC
MW is marketwatch. FC is factcheck

FACTS
debt increase more under RR and B2 than under BO...will be interesting to see debt under BO for 4 years and for 8 yrs...DEM slick willie (3.9) looked good compared to 8 yrs of GOP RR (8.7)
problems (debt, whatever) would be more easily solved if folks (legs/voters) addressed/quoted facts vice party line bumper sticker bs...

[housekeeping note: this posted in error to PATCH, 'Statement of Gov. Nikki Haley on Barack Obama Victory']

Pam Hricik

9:06 pm on Tuesday, November 13, 2012

If I survived 8 years of George W. Bush, all of you Republicans can survive 8 years of Obama! Get over it and accept it! Secession? Really? Has your life been that bad these past four years as the direct result of Obama? I think the boogie man fantasy that has been created by Fox, Rush and Glenn has actually replaced reality in your minds. I think you and I are already living in two different countries with two different presidents; however, mine is real and yours is imagined!

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Tami

9:13 am on Thursday, November 15, 2012

I couldn't of said it better myself !!!! : )

John H

10:37 pm on Tuesday, November 13, 2012

A person has the right to exercise civil disobedience but they do not have the right to speak for the vast majority of South Carolinians who love this country by petitioning the Federal Government to secede from it, pretending it to be on our behalf. They are practicing exactly what they are protesting against, tyranny of the few over the many.

The petition is a pathetic display of cognitive dissonance, sour grapes.

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stanley seigler

4:19 pm on Thursday, November 15, 2012

re: I am sick and tired of liberals painting conservatives as racist idiots. [michelle say; 9:03 pm on Tuesday, November 13, 2012]

wonder why they paint 'em like that...maybe cause GOPs say/do things like:

1. lets secede from the union again
2. need voterID law to correct non-existing problem
3. women cant get pregnant if raped
4. but if they do it's HIS/HER will
5. Evolution, embryology and the Big Bang theory are major underpinnings of mainstream science...they are lies straight from the pit of hell.
6. repeat failed policies that resulted in 1929 depression and 2008 recession...hoping for different results (didn't someone say this was idiocy)
7. invade iraq to find WMDs that dont exist...
8. name atheist ayn rand's disciple, p ryan, as VP candidate
9. have a presidential candidate who disses the 47%
10. ask america to return to the christian values of the founders (who for the most were not christian)...then have a presidential candidate who believes God lives on or near the plant/star, kolob.

racist idiots???

whatta you think...ie, how should conservatives be painted...probably not racist...not sure about idiots.

oh/and/FYI...i could care less if the president were mormon, christian, muslim, buddhist, sikh, whatever...just have issue with hypocrisy, baseless/prejudicial opines, and lies...

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stanley seigler

4:21 pm on Thursday, November 15, 2012

@Michelle

re: '...this conservative works with the disabled children that our public schools throw to the side of the road...schools are an example of failure to serve the people...far too many fail for children in the name of funding. [michelle say]

this bleeding heart liberal is the father of a spoiled only child ...a beautiful non verbal daughter with classic autism. i agree (100%) public schools fail the special needs children...as do most private for/notfor profit agencies...as does our christian society...

re: in the name of funding

inadequate funding and spending cuts to this inadequate funding is a major factor (certainly not the only one) in this failure...thus sentencing special needs folks to lives of benign neglect and abuse.

sadly many in our christian society (GOP's more so than DEMs) believe they get too much already.

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Denise Scott

9:07 pm on Friday, November 16, 2012

I have a question? When are we as a people gonna STOP relying on man and START relying on GOD?!? He is the way, the truth, and the light. All the problems this country is facing is due to our lack of FAITH!!!! Prayer has been taken out of our schools, companies not wanting their employees to say Merry CHRISTmas, people wanting "One Nation Under GOD " taken out of the pledge - WHEN WILL IT ALL END!!! Pray people instead of complaining because trust me, if we as American citizens go to war with each other and end up in prison, I seriously doubt Obama and Romney will fight to get us released!!!

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stanley seigler

7:31 am on Thursday, November 22, 2012

@John Schafer

your time at the keyboard would be better spent addressing issues vice attacking those who disagree with your positions...get facts to back your positions...you just might change minds...

for sure your adhom-like comments will NOT...i find no issue in your recent post...and will not respond in kind...

it's so easy to google for facts...you might start with justification to some (or pick one) of following:

1. lets secede from the union again
2. need voterID law to correct non-existing problem
3. women cant get pregnant if raped
4. but if they do it's HIS/HER will
5. Evolution, embryology and the Big Bang theory are major underpinnings of mainstream science...they are lies straight from the pit of hell.
6. repeat failed policies that resulted in 1929 depression and 2008 recession...hoping for different results (didn't someone say this was idiocy)
7. invade iraq to find WMDs that dont exist...
8. name atheist ayn rand's disciple, p ryan, as VP candidate
9. have a presidential candidate who disses the 47%
10. ask america to return to the christian values of the founders (who for the most were not christian)...then have a presidential candidate who believes God lives on or
near the plant/star, kolob.

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