POLL: Are Stronger Voter ID Laws Necessary?
Pennsylvania becomes the latest state to uphold the voter identification law, while other states are still challenging the law.
Nineteen states have toughened their voter identification laws in the last two years.
At least a third of the remaining states have challenges still pending, including South Carolina, Wisconsin, Texas and Florida.
On Wednesday, Judge Robert Simpson upheld Pennsylvania's controversial Voter ID law.
Supporters argue the laws protect against in-person voter impersonation fraud. As a result, at least 30 states have enacted some type of voter ID reform.
South Carolina's case is expected to be heard in federal court later this month.
But are stronger Voter ID laws needed?
Data from a project funded by the Carnegie and Knight foundations showed that in-person voter fraud is virtually nonexistent in the United States, with only 10 cases confirmed since the year 2000, The Huffington Post reported.
Vote in our poll and then leave your opinion in the comments section below.
Ken
11:35 am on Thursday, August 16, 2012
It is very apparent to most what the voter ID laws are about, and it is not about preventing the virtually nonexistent voter fraud. It is all about discouraging certain voters from casting a ballot in hopes of influencing the coming election in favor of a particular party.
Gary Lee White
11:08 pm on Saturday, September 29, 2012
It's really all to do about nothing.
The people who don't have some sort of photo ID, who are not part of the main stream, who are poor Black or Latino or White, realistically aren't going to vote anyway.
If they don't care enough about having some sort of identification on them they really aren't interesting in voting anyway.
And being poor hasn't got a thing to do with it.
stanley seigler
11:50 pm on Saturday, September 29, 2012
@Gary Lee White
you really cant believe this...you cant be that clueless...but;
if you are...can you explain, under current law, how one would commit voter fraud at the ballot box...if not all should agree as you say:
'It's [voterID laws] really all to do about nothing'...well actually voterID laws are all about suppression of BO/Dem voters...
the kockbro-ilk have to be laughing at we fools...and thinking how clever they are...
Gary Lee White
12:33 am on Sunday, September 30, 2012
You over educated idiots don't get it do you.
If that small category of people don't have the sense to have on them a photo ID of some sort, they are not going to vote anyway.
If i can take the time to have one, so can everybody else, what makes other people special and above the law ?
Just because they are Black, but can come up with money for Drink and Drugs, they sure can come up with money for a Photo ID, they are no better than I am.
stanley seigler
6:11 am on Sunday, September 30, 2012
@Gary Lee White
weel yo half-way right...an idiot but certainly NOT over educated...and it always time for old men to learn...so please;
help me understand why voterID laws are needed in addition to current laws...ie;
as asked/not answered: ' under current law, how one would commit voter fraud at the ballot box...'
why add unnecessary laws...seems better, in general, to simply the bureaucratic bs...
oh/and
re: '...they are not going to vote anyway.'
they should be encouraged to vote...not discouraged...
PS
re: 'you really cant believe this'
i was wrong!
Chuck F.
12:30 pm on Thursday, August 16, 2012
I have been asked on several occasions over the years to show my ID and/or Voter Registration card when voting and don't see why this is a problem. It does prevent people from using false ID for personal/political gain, if you're not guilty of voter fraud then why should this be an issue?
Adam Crisp
12:32 pm on Thursday, August 16, 2012
Here's a comment from @MisfitHair on Twitter: "They're racist period." Pretty short and to the point. Do you agree?
Jean Phillips
12:46 pm on Thursday, August 16, 2012
Voter ID is needed!!! I have proof, a lady used my business address to get a voter registration and voted absentee was her card.
stanley seigler
12:16 am on Sunday, September 30, 2012
@Jean Phillips
re: '...a lady used my business address to get a voter registration ...'
did she also use you social security number...did she register under multi-addresses and SS#s
how could she use your address to register...law requires:
'ID Required: If you are registering for the first time in this county, you must attach a copy of a current valid photo ID or a copy of a current utility bill, bank statement, paycheck or other government document that shows your name and address in this county.'
this was election official incompetence...NOT addressed by voterID laws...
Adam Crisp
12:52 pm on Thursday, August 16, 2012
Here's a comment from Daniel Encarnacion on Facebook: "It's a simple step to safeguard the legitimacy of our voting process. If for some reason there is a legitimate reason why someone cannot get an ID, under our voter ID law a person merely has to sign an affidavit explaining those reasons and can vote without an ID. That seems very reasonable to me."
Right Here
1:26 pm on Thursday, August 16, 2012
I find it amusing that the Patch is quoting the Huffington Post like it's a real, unbiased source of news.
Right Here
1:31 pm on Thursday, August 16, 2012
I also find it interesting that the "no" poll choice above also includes " don't spend another cent on it". How about:
c. It's common sense to prove who you are before voting, so people who are challenging this should stop wasting taxpayer money.
carlos blanco
1:35 pm on Thursday, August 16, 2012
It is all about not letting the poor (and mostly black) vote Democrat. To think that Jim Crow is alive, well and living in south Carolina and a bunch of other states is not exactly right. It is not racism or bigotry, it is just win the election. If the backs would vote Republican or were split on their voting patterns, we would not have these laws.
Right Here
2:23 pm on Thursday, August 16, 2012
Why is EVERYTHING in the liberal mind related to race?
stanley seigler
3:14 pm on Thursday, August 16, 2012
@John Schafer: 'The law is aimed at the CRIMINAL, not the poor.'
the law is aimed at BO-voters and pushed by BO-haters...
re: If there were no voter fraud, we would not NEED these laws.
there is NO voter fraud at the ballot box...if you have knowledge of such voter fraud you should so advise the SC attorney general (and other AGs)...the AGs found NONE, NONE, NONE.
thus the kock bro voterID laws are not needed...sad so many have sold their souls to the greedy bastards...who put self interest above the common good and general welfare of the USA
stanley seigler
5:02 pm on Thursday, August 16, 2012
@John Schafer: '...Please show me...'
difficult to understand that one cant/wont follow the dots...ie, needs to be shown kock-bro pushed voterID laws...are devised to limit BO/dem voters...NOT to correct non-existing voter fraud at the ballot box...
to show you google 'voter ID'...for a start read:
[CLIP] Every voter should demonstrate that they are who they say they are before voting. That form of proof should not include restrictive documentation requirements like overly burdensome photo ID or redundant proof of citizenship requirements that serve to block millions of eligible American citizens from voting http://www.brennancenter.org/content/section/category/voter_id/
if existing laws are enforced by election officials, there is NOway, NOway, there could be individual fraud at the ballot box...
if you wanted to commit voter fraud (under existing laws ), how would you do it...and how would you organize enough of your friends to do same and influence an election...
stanley seigler
7:43 pm on Thursday, August 16, 2012
@John Schafer: '"BOhaters" earlier does not apply to me...'
no one said or implied 'Bohater' applied to anyone specifically...i do not know anyone on PATCH well enough to make it personal...all my comment relate to philophies/policies of a group/party...
re: 'study the candidate' [js]
agree...ie, do yo homework...dont buy or quote (w/o factual backup) party line bs...
sadly all too many bought (hook, line, sinker) need for kock-bro's voterID laws...what a waste when there is a critical need to create jobs and grow the economy...
reg
10:37 am on Friday, August 17, 2012
To John Schafer's second comment in this sub-thread - the reason the department of justice ruled this SC attempt to be illegal was because it disproportionately affected blacks at a much higher rate than whites, and also disabled, too.
stanley seigler
2:58 pm on Thursday, August 16, 2012
@Ken: 'it is not about preventing the virtually nonexistent voter fraud.'
why dont our friends get this...it's painfully obvious...politicians carrying this legislation sold their souls (for campaign contributions) to the kock bros-etal...shame, shame.
@chuck f.: 'why should this be an issue?'
for the same reasons jim crow and poll tax were issues...it's immoral and a violation of civil rights...and the constitution
ironic irony:
had SC and other states implemented the 2005 REAL ID Act all citizens would have voterIDs...it ironic SC refused to implement...and now BO haters want IDs...as said 'go figger.'
couldn't be cause there is now a BLACK man in the WHITE house...could it...
@Jean Phillips: 'I have proof...'
interesting...but anecdotes are not proof...SC and no state's AGs found any evidence of voter fraud at the ballot box...IT DOESNT EXIST.
@Right Here: 'Why is EVERYTHING in the liberal mind related to race?
did you read carlos blanco: 'It is not racism or bigotry, it is just win the election. If the backs [latinos] would vote Republican or were split on their voting patterns, we would not have these laws.'
Vincent Stasio
3:44 pm on Thursday, August 16, 2012
Amazing! We all know that Voter Fraud indeed exist. If your honest then having the laws in place should not even be an issue. Its the same with all laws, if your honest then you do not need to produce phony ID. Come on people this is an important election and we need to make sure people can count on an honest Election
stanley seigler
7:57 pm on Thursday, August 16, 2012
@Vincent Stasio: '...We all know that Voter Fraud indeed exist...
we do??? ...you have proof (media articles, etc)...as mentioned, anyone with proof should submit this proof to SC attorney gen...he found NONE.
re: '...we need to make sure people can count on an honest Election'
existing laws do exactly that...are you familiar with existing laws...if so pls explain (if you were so inclined) how you would commit voter fraud...
Pat Shane
4:24 pm on Thursday, August 16, 2012
ANSWER: No, Voter ID laws are not necessary, because there has not been one single proven incident of on site voter fraud.
This is Voter Suppression at its finest.
Watch the video and sign the petition to end Voter Suppression.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9TjVsQa57c
stanley seigler
5:15 pm on Thursday, August 16, 2012
@John Schafer: '...like saying "not guilty" is the exact same thing as "innocent"...'
p-poor analogies...where has unproven voter fraud happened...where is proof it could even happen under existing voter registration laws in SC (and believe all states)...do you know/understand existing laws...
Gretchen
4:49 pm on Thursday, August 16, 2012
OBAMA always wants to emulate EUROPE ... well ... over there they have to have an ID to vote. This has nothing to do with DEM or REP. In Chicago, the DEMS control the voting machinery. They need to be watched. Wherever the REP control the voting machinery, the GOP needsto be watched. PERIOD !
stanley seigler
5:30 pm on Thursday, August 16, 2012
@Gretchen: '...They need to be watched...'
current laws do 'watch'...prevent...voter fraud at the ballot box which is all that's addressed in current crock-bro template laws...
asked/not answered...how would an individual commit voter fraud under existing laws...
laws protecting us from electronic voter fraud by election officials are needed...voterID laws are a waste of time, energy, tax monies...
sigh, the immoral, unchristian, sad, purpose of these useless laws is painfully obvious...to surpress BO/dem voters.
PERIOD!
Greg Tompkins
8:30 am on Friday, August 17, 2012
An excerpt from the Miami (FL) Herald Posted on Friday, 06.08.12, from the article "County elections chiefs to state: We won’t resume voter purge program"
"So far, more than 500 have been identified as citizens and lawful voters on the voter rolls. About 40 people statewide have been identified as noncitizens. At least four might have voted and could be guilty of a third-degree felony."
This article focuses on th attempt to clear the voter rolls in Florida earlier this year. Perhaps we can agree that voter fraud does happen, perhaps not on the scale that some would suggest, but certainly more than "never".
I just don't understand what harm there is in protecting my vote by ensuring, as much as reasonably possible, that all other votes are cast by legitimate members of the electorate. (For full disclosure I should tell you I am opposed to universal suffrage in the first place. The only way this ends is with the massess voting to take from those they percieve as having more and I find that nothing short of robbery.)
stanley seigler
11:35 am on Friday, August 17, 2012
@Greg Tompkins: '...Perhaps we can agree that voter fraud does happen, perhaps not on the scale that some would suggest, but certainly more than "never".'
what is happening in FL is part of the koch-bro strategy to suppress BO/dem voter...but that aside for now...
the fraud you refer to is not voter fraud at the ballot box (which is all voterID laws address)... indeed it is not voter fraud, but election official inaptitude: if indeed there are persons on the voter registration rolls who shouldnt be there, the question is why were they there in the first place.
BTW/FYI
Over the past few weeks more and more of the county supervisors who conduct the state's [FL] elections have publicly spoken about their discomfort with the purge and, in some cases, their decision to stop taking the vote away from their own constituents. Now it's unanimous opposition.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/06/08/1098504/-Florida-elections-officials-revolt-won-t-purge-voters-from-rolls
i oft wondered how hitler could convince, a relatively intelligent, sophisticated people (the germans), of the 'big lie'...recent events in our country are convincing me it was a piece of cake...
Dan Wiglesworth
9:09 am on Friday, August 17, 2012
Before moving to SC, I live in Kentucky for many years. They required voter ID and it was never an issue. I just don't understand what all the fuss is about in SC-ID is required for about everything anymore and requiring it for voting should not be an issue...
Gretchen
9:26 am on Friday, August 17, 2012
AMEN BRO ! ! It's not a problem .... it's just the DEMS don't have anything else to complain about ! They do not want to talk about the ECONOMY .... hence ... SMOKE AND MIRRORS !
reg
10:32 am on Friday, August 17, 2012
In Kentucky, you can use any kind of ID. That's no problem - voter registration card, student ID, military ID, driver's license - but that's not what they're trying to do here. They want you to have a state-issued photo ID - and then they challenge folks who apply for them. A neighbor of mine was refused a license because her birth certificate had a different name than the one on her NC license; they wouldn't accept the marriage license she brought, either. The state has also refused ID renewal for many folks, even insisting some elderly folks provide their complete school records (and then deny them because those schools aren't here anymore).
stanley seigler
10:26 am on Friday, August 17, 2012
FYI
SOUTH CAROLINA VOTER REGISTRATION FORM
http://www.scvotes.org/files/VR_Blank_Form.pdf
[for the complete form goto link]
[CLIP] ID Required: If you are registering for the first time in this county, you must attach a copy of a current valid photo ID or a copy of a current utility bill, bank statement, paycheck or other government document that shows your name and address in this county. If you do not provide this identification now, you will be required to provide this information when you vote. Voters who are age 65 and over, voters with disabilities, members of the U.S. Uniformed Services or Merchant Marines and their families, and U.S. Citizens residing outside the U.S. are exempt from this requirement.
** Social Security Number is required by the S.C. Code of Laws 7-5-170. This number is used for internal purposes only and eliminates multiple registrations by a single individual. Your Social Security Number is not released to any unauthorized individual. For Voter Registration Board Use Only [end clip]
asked of several kock-bro sheep who will not answer...so asking again...
CAN ANYONE PROVDE INSTANCES OF FRAUD or KNOW HOW VOTER FRAUD UNDER CURRENT LAW COULD BE COMMITTED AT THE BALLOT BOX?
all instance should be reported to the SC AG as he found NONE
if elections officials do their job only registered citizens can vote...
Greg Tompkins
12:18 pm on Friday, August 17, 2012
@Stanley I am aware of the issue in Florida. I think any time you do something like cleaning the voter rolls, extreme caution is required. However, the point I was trying to make, though obviously not successfully, was that voter fraud DOES occur. In the article I referenced at least 4 people possibly voted fraudulently.
I'm sorry, but your stance that voter fraud NEVER occurs is as unbelievable (no offense intended) as those that claim voter fraud is rampant. The truth lies somewhere in the middle.
In fact, Philadelphia recently conducted a review and found the following examples:
"one Democrat who voted in her new West Philly division and her old West Philly division." Accident or fraud?
"The report tracks a South Philly voter named Joseph Cheeseboro and someone voting in his name. The two voters, who each cast a ballot in 2007, are registered at a vacant lot and at a convenience store." Accident or fraud?
"seven registered voters who cast ballots in the past decade — including one this year — despite not being U.S. citizens." Accident or fraud?
So it seems to be not to be a serious problem at the moment, but why shouldn't there be a strong requirement to prove eligibility in order to protect our right? I don't understand the counter argument. When I moved here I had to go to DMV multiple times before all the paperwork was right and I could get my SC DL and driving is a privilege. Shouldn't we protect our rights just as hard?
stanley seigler
2:23 pm on Friday, August 17, 2012
@Greg Tompkins: '...but your stance that voter fraud NEVER occurs is as unbelievable...
no offense taken...never said never...just looking for the truth...well maybe my truth...
your anecdotal evidence provides the truth it's insignificant and has no effect on out comes...eg;
'seven registered voters who cast ballots in the past decade' ... and this justified voterID laws...c'mon greg, you really dont believe this...
re: why shouldn't there be a strong requirement to prove eligibility in order to protect our right [greg]
there should. voterIDs do not address the issue...they are the koch-bro strategy to suppress BO/dem voters.
better informed/educated election officials and perhaps stronger voter registration laws are an answer...e.g., SC law should require proof when one registers...not the alternate of providing proof at the ballot box.
current SC law: 'If you do not provide this identification now, you will be required to provide this information when you vote'
and
MUCH, much, stronger laws re electronic voter machine laws are needed, eg
'Deibold Voting Machine Fraud Exposed..Ron Paul's votes were ELECTRONICALLY STOLEN from him and given to MITT ROMNEY in South Carolina!'
oh/and where the BOhater outrage...think no outrage cause diebold contributes to the GOPs...couldn't be, could it???
Gretchen
1:22 pm on Friday, August 17, 2012
Stanley ... I wish you would be a bit more CLEAR where you are making your point. Most of the time I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THE HECK YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT !
stanley seigler
2:37 pm on Friday, August 17, 2012
@Gretchen: '...I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THE HECK YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT!
neither do i...will try to improve...but 'hard to teach an old dog new tricks' as they say in lithuania...
suggestions to improve and specific questions welcome...if you really care about 'what the heck i'm talking about'...cant imagine you or anyone really cares...
i just post to PATCH to keep my mind occupied...
Greg Tompkins
3:43 pm on Friday, August 17, 2012
Well Stanley, I'm not sure we agree or not on VOter ID laws, but thanks for keeping it predominantly civil. First such discourse I've seen on Patch (or elsewhere).
Take care.
stanley seigler
4:17 pm on Friday, August 17, 2012
@Greg Tompkins: '...I'm not sure we agree or not on VOter ID laws, but thanks for keeping it predominantly civil.'
DITTO to you...or think as they say/said 'back at cha'...as you know adhoms and too cute by 1/2 comments add nothing to determining the truth...
Greg Tompkins
4:51 pm on Friday, August 17, 2012
@Stanley Right you are. My personal goal is to avoid the trap of name calling, race-baiting, insulting, etc. Let's have a conversation like we are sitting around momma's Ben Franklin face to face. All the hate and insults usually hurled on these blogs is so ridiculous.
Take care!
stanley seigler
11:29 am on Saturday, August 18, 2012
@Greg Tompkins: '...momma's Ben Franklin...'
we didnt have a ben franklin just an open fire plaec for heat, not decoration...but;
'those were the days my friend...we thought they'd never end' ... kinder, gentler days...
not to get too maudlin or altruistic...and you have probably have seen this quote:
"Truth is a shining goddess, always veiled, always distant, never wholly approachable, but worthy of all the devotion of which the human spirit is capable" (Bertrand Russell)...
it seems appropriate here...as it mirrors your worthy 'personal goal'...
i try...but it's hard to avoid 'the trap' and not respond in kind...PATCH is good 'trap avoidance' practice...
stanley seigler
1:15 pm on Tuesday, September 11, 2012
FYI
Voter ID laws create barriers for adults with disabilities
State laws that target voter identification for registration or limit absentee or early voting can adversely affect Americans with disabilities, says Rebecca Schleifer of Human Rights Watch. She says states should be working to ensure all qualified Americans can vote, including making information more accessible to people with disabilities, such as by using simple language, visual aids or oral instructions. The Huffington Post/Rebecca Schleifer's blog (9/5)
Gretchen
1:55 pm on Tuesday, September 11, 2012
Stanley ... why am I not surprised you get your INFO from HUFFINGTON POST ??? Obama always wants us to be like EUROPE .... well ... they have voter ID cards over there in some places, and it does not seem to DISENFRANCHISE anyone. Their voter turn out is always greater than ours. GO FIGURE !
stanley seigler
11:10 am on Thursday, September 13, 2012
FYI
Jim Cramer: 'I have a problem. My dad, a vet, won't be allowed to vote in Pa. because he does not drive, he is elderly, and can't prove his citizenship.'
jim's dad one of more than 21 million people...who lack a valid, government-issued photo ID...about 11 percent of adult citizens...
@Gretchen
difficult to connect the dots in your post...eg, surely you dont mean to say if BO wants USA to be like europe (which he doesnt)...therefore, a need for voterID laws...oh/and BO is opposed to voterID laws...
GO FIGURE! why there is no response to the following questions...asked several times on PATCH...
1. does anyone have any instances of voter fraud at the ballot box
2. can anyone explain how it is possible under existing laws to committee voter fraud at the ballot box
3. can anyone explain why voterID was not considered prior to the election of BO
4. can anyone explain why SC (and other states) opposed the 2005 Real ID act...actually refused to implement it...implementation would have provided all with voterIDs.
care to surprise me with a response, gretchen?
martin, bob
3:22 pm on Wednesday, September 19, 2012
Poll Results
Are stronger voter ID laws necessary?
Yes,56%
The integrity of our elections is at the core of who we are as a society.
stanley seigler
10:25 pm on Saturday, September 29, 2012
@ martin, bob: 'The integrity of our elections is at the core of who we are as a society...'
INDEED...however votedID laws are not needed and do NOTHING to insure the integrity...
the fraud occurs with registration; electronic voting; and with election officials. NOT by individuals at the ballot box. ... eg;
'Suspicions of voter-registration fraud by a firm working for the Republican Party of Florida spread to at least eight counties Friday after apparent irregularities in registration forms emerged earlier this week in a single county.'
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390444752504578024903833678698